[kenso]

Hi all,

This is the first time I'm posting here in Autoworld. Finally, after spending days reading all I could about Camry and Accord in a few forums, I've finished all the related pages in all the threads. I'm amused to see a few of my friends posting here since they did not tell me they were active here as well. At any rate, I am no closer to coming to a decision between the Accord and Camry.

My company practices giving company cars for its staffs and as a senior member of the management team, I am entitled to a higher monthly repayment scheme compared to others. The usual loan tenure for company cars is 5 years at the end of which the staff driving the car has the option of purchasing the vehicle at market rate minus 10-20% discount.

In selecting a new car, I have narrowed down the following criteria:
1) Driver comfort (being in the sales line and traveling often, a car with good back & thigh support is very important)
2) Passanger comfort (wife and child sits often behind so would want to have them be as comfortable as possible)
3) 2nd hand value (since I can buy the car at the end of loan with discounts, would like to maximize the price)

I think most would agree on the following pros of each car:-

Camry
1) Better NVH
2) Better ride comfort

Accord
1) Better driving dynamics
2) Better 2nd hand value*

*Some comments were made on its 2nd hand value but a quick check in a few newspapers and mags confirms Accord commands a higher value compared to a Camry of the same age and type. Even if this is disputable, another forumer has pointed out that Accord is still early in its life cycle but Camry may be due for a model upgrade in 3/4 years (which would then reduce the 2nd value of today's ACV41). After 5 years, we would be seeing both the Accord and Camry pitted against each other with a generation of design apart.


In the end, I can't decide because for the points listed above, the Camry and Accord tie. The one reason that prevents be from going ahead with the Accord is there isn't a model with specifications similar to a 2.0G Camry. No doubt I could add leather seats and HID on my own (electric seats is altogether a different matter), having all these options that comes with the car (hence under the warranty coverage) would make life so much easier. But then I dislike the Accord 2.4 leather ... I find them too hard and uncomfortable.

Nonetheless, after much reading, I want to ask this: Forumer Jedi has mentioned he came across an Accord customized with a 7" LCD that has reverse/front camera linked to it, DVD playback, GPS, etc. I wonder .... to what degree of customization can the Accord accommodate? I like the idea that it would all look factory fitted (hence less likely a thief would notice the mods). I'm the kind of person who likes options and is willing to pay a little more for it. Since there is an LCD cavity on the Accord already, it should be easier to add things as opposed to the Camry.

Also, to answer my 2nd criteria of passanger comfort, can those who drive a CP1 give me another car's equivalent in terms of rear passenger comfort? I wanted to arrange a test drive session of the 2.0 with my wife and went to the Bangsar Honda dealership yesterday. The SA there told me it is simply not possible to arrange a CP1 test drive and other dealerships would tell me the same thing. I did not want to talk to him further as I know it IS possible to arrange (having arranged it before with the Glenmarie branch). Maybe it`s just my luck that I find inefficient and lying SAs more in Honda dealerships than in Toyota ... been to Puchong, Bangsar, TTDI and Glenmarie and only Glenmarie has the best service.

Sigh, been having sleepless nights over this issue.

[jedi]

Hi all,

This is the first time I'm posting here in Autoworld. Finally, after spending days reading all I could about Camry and Accord in a few forums, I've finished all the related pages in all the threads. I'm amused to see a few of my friends posting here since they did not tell me they were active here as well. At any rate, I am no closer to coming to a decision between the Accord and Camry.

My company practices giving company cars for its staffs and as a senior member of the management team, I am entitled to a higher monthly repayment scheme compared to others. The usual loan tenure for company cars is 5 years at the end of which the staff driving the car has the option of purchasing the vehicle at market rate minus 10-20% discount.

In selecting a new car, I have narrowed down the following criteria:
1) Driver comfort (being in the sales line and traveling often, a car with good back & thigh support is very important)
2) Passanger comfort (wife and child sits often behind so would want to have them be as comfortable as possible)
3) 2nd hand value (since I can buy the car at the end of loan with discounts, would like to maximize the price)

I think most would agree on the following pros of each car:-

Camry
1) Better NVH
2) Better ride comfort

Accord
1) Better driving dynamics
2) Better 2nd hand value*

*Some comments were made on its 2nd hand value but a quick check in a few newspapers and mags confirms Accord commands a higher value compared to a Camry of the same age and type. Even if this is disputable, another forumer has pointed out that Accord is still early in its life cycle but Camry may be due for a model upgrade in 3/4 years (which would then reduce the 2nd value of today's ACV41). After 5 years, we would be seeing both the Accord and Camry pitted against each other with a generation of design apart.


In the end, I can't decide because for the points listed above, the Camry and Accord tie. The one reason that prevents be from going ahead with the Accord is there isn't a model with specifications similar to a 2.0G Camry. No doubt I could add leather seats and HID on my own (electric seats is altogether a different matter), having all these options that comes with the car (hence under the warranty coverage) would make life so much easier. But then I dislike the Accord 2.4 leather ... I find them too hard and uncomfortable.

Nonetheless, after much reading, I want to ask this: Forumer Jedi has mentioned he came across an Accord customized with a 7" LCD that has reverse/front camera linked to it, DVD playback, GPS, etc. I wonder .... to what degree of customization can the Accord accommodate? I like the idea that it would all look factory fitted (hence less likely a thief would notice the mods). I'm the kind of person who likes options and is willing to pay a little more for it. Since there is an LCD cavity on the Accord already, it should be easier to add things as opposed to the Camry.

Also, to answer my 2nd criteria of passanger comfort, can those who drive a CP1 give me another car's equivalent in terms of rear passenger comfort? I wanted to arrange a test drive session of the 2.0 with my wife and went to the Bangsar Honda dealership yesterday. The SA there told me it is simply not possible to arrange a CP1 test drive and other dealerships would tell me the same thing. I did not want to talk to him further as I know it IS possible to arrange (having arranged it before with the Glenmarie branch). Maybe it`s just my luck that I find inefficient and lying SAs more in Honda dealerships than in Toyota ... been to Puchong, Bangsar, TTDI and Glenmarie and only Glenmarie has the best service.

Sigh, been having sleepless nights over this issue.

Dear kenso

1. I am highly impressed with your need to explore your option in choosing either Camry or Accord. It is not often that we see forummers who put himself and his family's interest first in deciding what to buy and having an open mind. More often than not we have hardcore Accord or Camry forummers giving their views on such issue based on nothing more than blind loyalty or bad experience previously.

2. But first, have u decided when to buy either the Camry or Accord? Is it within this few months or very much later? The timing of your purchase is very important and it has a bearing on either Camry or Accord. I have always taken the view that it is better to buy a car which is in the early part of the cycle. Since u view second hand value as an important factor, it follows that u should buy a car at the early part of the cycle. BTW, are u going to buy the car (which u intend your company to buy now) at the end of the 5 th year or are u going to sell it off? If u are buying it yourself after the 5th year and u dont intend to sell it, then I dont think 2nd hand value is an issue to you and therefore it does not matter if the car is at the end of the cycle. But if u plan to sell the car once u opt to buy at the end of the 5th year, then I think the early part of the cycle argument would be relevant to u. In 5 years, I think the CP1 would be in its current gen but with facelift but there would be a totally new Camry ie ACV51 by the end of the 5th year. Once a new totally new model comes out, the value of the existing model would significantly drop. Also when a new facelift comes out, the value of the existing model would also drop but less than if a totally new model comes out.

3. I can totally relate to u about the fact that Accord does not have its equivalent in 2.0G. Imagine me coming from 2.0G (with all the extras like electric leather seat, HID etc etc) to a less accessory car like the CP1. But u get what u paid for. The CP1 is RM10 less than the ACV41. But since I change cars every 2 years, I really had no choice as I had to let go of the 2.0G before the facelift comes out at the end of this year. So I had to accept the shortcomings in the Accord knowing fully well that I think I have made the right decision to let go of the 2.0G when it can still sell at a premium. But of course I did what I can do to put those extras eg full leather, 17 in tyre etc etc. but as u read in my post, putting a 6K LCD set is too pricey for a 2 year tenure car.

4. As regards ur query on similar car rear seat comfort, when I changed from the 2.0G to the CP1, my kids and the maid made no comment on the bumpiness or otherwise of the rear seat and I know my kids enough to know that they do not have encounter any difference in comfort level. If there is a difference in comfort level however slight, they would be the first to scream and complain! One of the things that my kids wanted to know was whether there was rear A/Cin the Cp1 since they had gotten used to the rear AC in the ACV41. If u ve been following the forum, u know that rear AC was an issue which I raised to Honda Japan way before the CP1 was launched since the US version of the CP1 did not have any. So my kids feedback ranks paramount. To be honest, there were issues raised on the bumpiness of the CP but so far I have not felt any significant drop in comfort as compared to the ACV41. I think one of the main reason is the fact I change my tyre to Toyo Proxes TR1, supposedly softer tyre - so far very quiet, good grip in wet and comfortable. The stock Goodyear excellence is known to be bumpy. But u have to ask the other forumers on actual experience.

5. As regards CP1 test drive, I am surprised that they did not allow u to test the CP1. I think that's real stupid of them letting go of a potential customer. If need be, I think u should see the manager and ask for one but u have to show them that u are really serious about buying CP1.

6. To what extent u can customise the CP1? Well, I'm not much into customization so other CP forumers with actual experience can help. But as I wrote before, what I saw in one of the CP's was impressive ie 7" LCD that has reverse/front camera linked to it (night vision with measurement), DVD playback, GPS. But I also saw in a picture (not real life) in one of the car magazine of a Camry which also has a LCD screen but it took a substantial portion of the centre console and I believe it has similar function. It also looked neat and part of the console and not one of those horrible add ons. So I think u can customize the Camry console such that it blends into the console. Other forumers with actual knowledge on this may assist.

7. If this is a Honda forum and I recommend Camry, I will surely be whacked. Similarly if this is a Camry forum and I recommend Accord, I will also be whacked. But seriously, I really don't care what the response is because I think we should put aside our prejudiced mind and help out friend kenso here to OBJECTIVELY help him in his predicament.

8. I have not touched on the other strength and weaknesses of the Camry or Accord as I think u have read these issues in this and other forums and in any event, u have not raised them. No car is perfect. I always stressed that luck plays an important role in QC. I have said my piece and you can see where my preference is at this moment. Of course when the new ACV51 comes out, I would, accordingly alter my actual recommendation to suit the circumstances but the principles I believe still remains.

9. I hope the above helps u in your decision. If not u can always ask further if u have something troubling your mind. Buying a RM140/150K car is no joke and a serious matter. But whatever decision u make. please do not regret later on because it will make your life miserable. Live with it and accept it. So before u decide, get all the info.

[dynamite]

Hmm, if you get to purchase the car after 5 years at market price (with discount somemore), shouldn't you buy the one with worse 2nd hand value?

Go for the Mazda 6!

[kenso]

[quote name='jedi' date='Apr 12 2009, 11:09 PM' post='1390601']

Dear Jedi,

Once again, your posting has never failed to provide me another perspective to consider in my dilemma. I am most grateful of you taking the time and effort to share your views on the issues I have highlighted. As you say, dishing out RM140-150k is not a small sum and I would not like to be (mis)guided by prejudice. No doubt, some criteria such as beauty is subjective but other quantifiable qualities such as those found in the specifications list (or after-sales service experience) should be easier to articulate and such input goes a long way in helping potential buyers to decide what is best for him/herself.

To answer your questions, yes, I have every intention of purchasing the vehicle at the end of the loan and will keep the car for at least 7 years (meaning minimum another 2 years extra after purchase). I have not fixed a date when I want to buy the car but likely it`ll be within the next 2 months. I am aware of the imminent launch of the facelift Camry but if it is anywhere near the pictures of the China we're seeing in the Internet, I am more inclined towards the current variant having deemed the newer bumper compromises the elegance of the car. "IF" I were to decide on the Camry, the depreciation cost brought about by the facelift is something I am willing to accommodate. On this topic of 2nd value after 5 years, clearly the Accord has an advantage since its fascia is the most current.

From your description of your experience moving from a better decked vehicle (2.0G) to the Accord, I garnered an impression that you are not too thrilled with the idea. I could be wrong of course. Question to you then, sir: despite adding and matching the extras found in the Camry 2.0G, were you able to match (or better) the impression you had of your Camry in terms of seat comfort and whatever other characteristics you are able to qualify when owning and driving a Camry? Since this new vehicle is for keeps, I feel spending RM6k for options is an acceptable amount since I hazard some (if not all) the components to be installed can be dismantled and refitting to any new car that has similar housings with the Accord.

Thank you for sharing a tip on how to reduce the harshness of the stock CP1 tires. I will, most certainly explore that option if I find the existing ride to be an issue of contention between my wife and I. Have you had any feedback from adults you have commuted with your ACV41 comparing the ride comfort with your CP1? The reason why I have not discounted Accord from consideration despite hating stiff seats found in the CP2 is that CP1 fabric seats has more cushion in them. Are reputable companies specializing in wrapping leather around car seats able to add the plush feel of the seats so that they could be comparable (or better) than those found in the 2.0G?

I am questioning the wisdom of adding a 7" LCD in a Camry since it doesn't comes with them from the factory, hence increasing the theft risk the moment criminals spot the difference. Similar modifications on an Accord however would be stealth like and not easily detected.

I am amused (in a good way, mind you ) at your recommendation of showing the manager of a Honda branch that I am serious in getting a CP1. Should I waggle my checkbook in front of him/her or should I drive myself to the showroom in a better car than a Toyota Vios? As funny as it sounds, although this issue has caused sleepless nights, I am excited over the prospect of getting a better car soon. Just like seeing 2 beautiful ladies in front of you, both just waiting for you to take home ... the best times, I feel comes from the moment between being aware that you have 2 chicks to choose from and the time when actual decision and commitment is made. If the branch manager fails to recognize the sales potential standing in front of him, I'll just bring my business elsewhere. In today's trying economic times, I wonder how long can these poor service branches can survive.

Oh, by the way, can you comment a little on the difference between a 4 speed auto (Camry) and a 5 speed auto (Accord)?

Thanks a lot for your valuable contribution.

[kenso]

Hmm, if you get to purchase the car after 5 years at market price (with discount somemore), shouldn't you buy the one with worse 2nd hand value?

Go for the Mazda 6!

Actually, the car with the worse 2nd hand value but good specifications is the CKD Peugeot 407. No matter how bad the M6 could be in 5 years time, it's still a CBU and hence, should command a higher price (not to mention the initial value of the 407 is much lower compared to the M6 so it's 2nd hand price after 5 years should also correspondingly be lower).

I have tested the Mazda 6. In fact, Mazda 6 was my first choice ... until I tested it. Both 2.0 and 2.5 variants were made available for me to drive and I was very disappointed at a few points. For a car about RM150 - 180k, its torque and power, I find lacking (strangely, from what I have read in the forums, no one complains of this ... perhaps there is something wrong with the test drive unit I had and should test another unit in another showroom). Furthermore, cabin size is smaller than the Accord and Camry and there is no rear aircon vent. Although I like the 2.5L options (true keyless start, xenon lights, sunroof, paddle shifters), it fails in 2 of my primary criterion; namely NVH and cabin size which translates to poor passenger comfort and appalling 2nd value.

[jedi]

Dear Jedi,

Once again, your posting has never failed to provide me another perspective to consider in my dilemma. I am most grateful of you taking the time and effort to share your views on the issues I have highlighted. As you say, dishing out RM140-150k is not a small sum and I would not like to be (mis)guided by prejudice. No doubt, some criteria such as beauty is subjective but other quantifiable qualities such as those found in the specifications list (or after-sales service experience) should be easier to articulate and such input goes a long way in helping potential buyers to decide what is best for him/herself.

To answer your questions, yes, I have every intention of purchasing the vehicle at the end of the loan and will keep the car for at least 7 years (meaning minimum another 2 years extra after purchase). I have not fixed a date when I want to buy the car but likely it`ll be within the next 2 months. I am aware of the imminent launch of the facelift Camry but if it is anywhere near the pictures of the China we're seeing in the Internet, I am more inclined towards the current variant having deemed the newer bumper compromises the elegance of the car. "IF" I were to decide on the Camry, the depreciation cost brought about by the facelift is something I am willing to accommodate. On this topic of 2nd value after 5 years, clearly the Accord has an advantage since its fascia is the most current.

From your description of your experience moving from a better decked vehicle (2.0G) to the Accord, I garnered an impression that you are not too thrilled with the idea. I could be wrong of course. Question to you then, sir: despite adding and matching the extras found in the Camry 2.0G, were you able to match (or better) the impression you had of your Camry in terms of seat comfort and whatever other characteristics you are able to qualify when owning and driving a Camry? Since this new vehicle is for keeps, I feel spending RM6k for options is an acceptable amount since I hazard some (if not all) the components to be installed can be dismantled and refitting to any new car that has similar housings with the Accord.

Thank you for sharing a tip on how to reduce the harshness of the stock CP1 tires. I will, most certainly explore that option if I find the existing ride to be an issue of contention between my wife and I. Have you had any feedback from adults you have commuted with your ACV41 comparing the ride comfort with your CP1? The reason why I have not discounted Accord from consideration despite hating stiff seats found in the CP2 is that CP1 fabric seats has more cushion in them. Are reputable companies specializing in wrapping leather around car seats able to add the plush feel of the seats so that they could be comparable (or better) than those found in the 2.0G?

I am questioning the wisdom of adding a 7" LCD in a Camry since it doesn't comes with them from the factory, hence increasing the theft risk the moment criminals spot the difference. Similar modifications on an Accord however would be stealth like and not easily detected.

I am amused (in a good way, mind you ) at your recommendation of showing the manager of a Honda branch that I am serious in getting a CP1. Should I waggle my checkbook in front of him/her or should I drive myself to the showroom in a better car than a Toyota Vios? As funny as it sounds, although this issue has caused sleepless nights, I am excited over the prospect of getting a better car soon. Just like seeing 2 beautiful ladies in front of you, both just waiting for you to take home ... the best times, I feel comes from the moment between being aware that you have 2 chicks to choose from and the time when actual decision and commitment is made. If the branch manager fails to recognize the sales potential standing in front of him, I'll just bring my business elsewhere. In today's trying economic times, I wonder how long can these poor service branches can survive.

Oh, by the way, can you comment a little on the difference between a 4 speed auto (Camry) and a 5 speed auto (Accord)?

Thanks a lot for your valuable contribution.

Dear kenso

1. Thank you for your kind remark. I enjoy writing (typing). It is a passion for me though I am not a writer - I do not write for a living. Work has been quite stressful lately. So any writing that has nothing to do with work is actually an outlet and escapism for me. I particularly enjoy writing in forums if I know can add value and share knowledge in relation to the issues at hand. Conversely, I abhor having to spend time to rebut frivolous and vexatious comments!

2. Now, I think I'm getting a clearer picture of your requirement. Since u planned to keep your new car for the next 7 years, then 2nd hand value is not an issue to u since after 7 years I think the value is not substantial enough to warrant a major factor in your decision. Accordingly I think it should not matter to u at which point the cycle of a model is - whether it is early or later part of the cycle.

3. "despite adding and matching the extras found in the Camry 2.0G, were you able to match (or better) the impression you had of your Camry in terms of seat comfort and whatever other characteristics you are able to qualify when owning and driving a Camry?"� Honestly, no. I find the comfort level in the 2.0G much better than the CP1. Camry's seat has that plush feeling which I do not find in the CP1. But I have to qualify by saying that it is only in relation to the comfort that I feel Camry has the edge - As far as the ergonomic, instrument and layout of the cockpit is concerned, I think I prefer the Accord (of course, this is highly subjective and not subject to any measurable benchmark) maybe it's because its newer with more modern application like the USB port which I find really really really useful since i don't need to burn any more CD's and my kids can use their IPod. And the selector knob is really useful if you have 1000 songs and 200 folders in your 4GB thumb drive - to go to folder no 160 and song number 200, its really a breeze to use the selector knob. And if u can add the 7" LCD at the proper housing - well, I just have to say, wow! Though I must say that the Camry Multi Information Display (eg how much petrol left, time travelled per session etc) very useful which I do not find in the CP1. However, the rear vent AC for the CP1 is more efficient and colder as compared to my 2.0G, at least that is the feedback I get from my kids. The electric seat for the Camry is a plus factor - and there is no way I can add that in the CP1.

4. As far as the leather is concerned there are reputable companies specialiazing in leather - those high end installers who does a lot of upholstery for high end cars but it is only in relation to the leather and I don'™t think they alter the cushion content in the seat. So I don't think they will have any impact on the comfort level of the CP1.

5. Waggling your checkbook in front of the manager may catch his attention (ha! ha!) but "accidentally" showing him your platinum card should also help (it helped in my case!). But seriously, if u tell the manager that you are entitled to buy the CP1 as a company's benefit and u are considering the CP1 I think no SA in his right mind will ignore u. But then again, if they choose to do so, they do so at their peril and they deserve to lose a customer.

6. As regards the 4 speed 5 speed issue, I find that the Accord has smoother acceleration, change of gears and has a nice purr sound (not wee wee). The 2.0G is in my view underpowered. I can feel and hear the roar of the engine when I am overtaking or when joining a roundabout from rest - and there is the jerkiness when u first pressed the accelerator pedal to move (but I got used to it eventually). The Accord however, drives like a dream.

7. Having regards to all the info that u put forward, all in all, I think, you are better off getting the existing Camry since a) u appear to like the existing model more than the purported facelift, b. 2nd hand value is not really an issue to you; and c. u place comfort as a high priority for u and ur family. Point c is the most important in your case i think and that tilts the balance in Camry's favour. Your other points such as customization are incidental and consequential to your major points. However if i were u I think I'll wait for the facelift since Camry is not photogenic - it always looked better in person . You'll have the benefit of a current facelift model for at least 2 years as opposed to just 6 months for the existing model. but i hear the facelift costs more.

8. But as I said before, once u decide, close your eyes, execute the decision and NEVER REGRET! I wish you the best, and may be the force be with you!

Dont lose sleep over this decision - not worth it in my view your health is more important that the RM140/150K!

9. BTW, there is one more factor that i think u should take into account. the ACV41 being a CBU Thailand, so the sparepart is more expensive. Since u intend to keep the car for at least 7 years, maintainence and sparepart is an issue to you. The windscreen for example costs about RM2 to 3K i think (that was quoted to me last year). The insurance premium for Camry windscreen is quite hefty i think. The CP1 is Alor Gajah so spareparts should be cheaper. I think CP1's windscreen is less than RM2K.

10. After having the CP1 for close to two months, i'm starting to appreciate the beauty in her - not that I did not find one in her before but having one so close everyday, one can see all the perfection and imperfection in her. I think the designer made a superb job in designing the CP1. Of course, to be fair, the Camry also looks nice.

[kenso]

Dear kenso

1. Thank you for your kind remark. I enjoy writing (typing). It is a passion for me though I am not a writer - I do not write for a living. Work has been quite stressful lately. So any writing that has nothing to do with work is actually an outlet and escapism for me. I particularly enjoy writing in forums if I know can add value and share knowledge in relation to the issues at hand. Conversely, I abhor having to spend time to rebut frivolous and vexatious comments!

2. Now, I think I'm getting a clearer picture of your requirement. Since u planned to keep your new car for the next 7 years, then 2nd hand value is not an issue to u since after 7 years I think the value is not substantial enough to warrant a major factor in your decision. Accordingly I think it should not matter to u at which point the cycle of a model is - whether it is early or later part of the cycle.

3. "despite adding and matching the extras found in the Camry 2.0G, were you able to match (or better) the impression you had of your Camry in terms of seat comfort and whatever other characteristics you are able to qualify when owning and driving a Camry?"� Honestly, no. I find the comfort level in the 2.0G much better than the CP1. Camry's seat has that plush feeling which I do not find in the CP1. But I have to qualify by saying that it is only in relation to the comfort that I feel Camry has the edge - As far as the ergonomic, instrument and layout of the cockpit is concerned, I think I prefer the Accord (of course, this is highly subjective and not subject to any measurable benchmark) maybe it's because its newer with more modern application like the USB port which I find really really really useful since i don't need to burn any more CD's and my kids can use their IPod. And the selector knob is really useful if you have 1000 songs and 200 folders in your 4GB thumb drive - to go to folder no 160 and song number 200, its really a breeze to use the selector knob. And if u can add the 7" LCD at the proper housing - well, I just have to say, wow! Though I must say that the Camry Multi Information Display (eg how much petrol left, time travelled per session etc) very useful which I do not find in the CP1. However, the rear vent AC for the CP1 is more efficient and colder as compared to my 2.0G, at least that is the feedback I get from my kids. The electric seat for the Camry is a plus factor - and there is no way I can add that in the CP1.

4. As far as the leather is concerned there are reputable companies specialiazing in leather - those high end installers who does a lot of upholstery for high end cars but it is only in relation to the leather and I don'�t think they alter the cushion content in the seat. So I don't think they will have any impact on the comfort level of the CP1.

5. Waggling your checkbook in front of the manager may catch his attention (ha! ha!) but "accidentally" showing him your platinum card should also help (it helped in my case!). But seriously, if u tell the manager that you are entitled to buy the CP1 as a company's benefit and u are considering the CP1 I think no SA in his right mind will ignore u. But then again, if they choose to do so, they do so at their peril and they deserve to lose a customer.

6. As regards the 4 speed 5 speed issue, I find that the Accord has smoother acceleration, change of gears and has a nice purr sound (not wee wee). The 2.0G is in my view underpowered. I can feel and hear the roar of the engine when I am overtaking or when joining a roundabout from rest - and there is the jerkiness when u first pressed the accelerator pedal to move (but I got used to it eventually). The Accord however, drives like a dream.

7. Having regards to all the info that u put forward, all in all, I think, you are better off getting the existing Camry since a) u appear to like the existing model more than the purported facelift, b. 2nd hand value is not really an issue to you; and c. u place comfort as a high priority for u and ur family. Point c is the most important in your case i think and that tilts the balance in Camry's favour. Your other points such as customization are incidental and consequential to your major points. However if i were u I think I'll wait for the facelift since Camry is not photogenic - it always looked better in person . You'll have the benefit of a current facelift model for at least 2 years as opposed to just 6 months for the existing model. but i hear the facelift costs more.

8. But as I said before, once u decide, close your eyes, execute the decision and NEVER REGRET! I wish you the best, and may be the force be with you!

Dont lose sleep over this decision - not worth it in my view your health is more important that the RM140/150K!

9. BTW, there is one more factor that i think u should take into account. the ACV41 being a CBU Thailand, so the sparepart is more expensive. Since u intend to keep the car for at least 7 years, maintainence and sparepart is an issue to you. The windscreen for example costs about RM2 to 3K i think (that was quoted to me last year). The insurance premium for Camry windscreen is quite hefty i think. The CP1 is Alor Gajah so spareparts should be cheaper. I think CP1's windscreen is less than RM2K.

10. After having the CP1 for close to two months, i'm starting to appreciate the beauty in her - not that I did not find one in her before but having one so close everyday, one can see all the perfection and imperfection in her. I think the designer made a superb job in designing the CP1. Of course, to be fair, the Camry also looks nice.

Dear Jedi,

I have to confess; when I wake up early in the morning, the first thing I do is to switch on my laptop and see if you have replied. And once again, I am not disappointed. Work has been stressful of late, I agree. Been traveling outstation almost every week now attempting to secure more business for my company ... business opportunities are out there; they just require honest hard work, coupled with being creative and innovative in presenting our business proposal and a great deal of luck. The increase in frequency of traveling is one of the key reasons why I am requesting the company to change my vehicle to one with better driving comfort, size and safety.

Ah, you have figured me out when it comes to the 2nd hand value of the car being less important as opposed to the other 2 criteria. To be honest, your posting basically narrows down the areas where my indecision lies. In the Camry, ride comfort is assured. In the Accord, I "believe" that as a driver, the performance would be better and the instrument layout, as you say is ergonomically better compared to the Camry. To sum it up, one car to drive, another to be driven. This is the reason why I wanted to arrange a CP1 test unit for my wife. If I could, in some way get her to experience the degree of comfort in the Accord and compromise a little against the Camry, I am then more inclined towards the Accord.

And so finally, not wanting to think more last night since I was so tired after returning from Ipoh, I left it to my 2 year son to pick the car ... I brought both catalogs out and put them in front of him. I was amused at how serious he looked when considering which car looked better since both appears very pleasing to him .... surprisingly, he took the Accord

Oh, btw ... I noticed the soundproof of the Accord's roof is very bad ... just rapping my knuckles from the inside and out of the roof tells a very hollow sound. The Camry does not have this problem. Comments?

On other features of the car, you have mentioned the odometer of the Camry has the multi info display. Does this mean the CP1 doesn't? On the side of the Accord, it has a USB port that makes integration of thumbdrives and Ipods easy. Does this mean the Camry doesn't have this?

And one last thing .... the top speed of a CP1 is 190kph? What about the Camry?

[jedi]

Dear Jedi,

I have to confess; when I wake up early in the morning, the first thing I do is to switch on my laptop and see if you have replied. And once again, I am not disappointed. Work has been stressful of late, I agree. Been traveling outstation almost every week now attempting to secure more business for my company ... business opportunities are out there; they just require honest hard work, coupled with being creative and innovative in presenting our business proposal and a great deal of luck. The increase in frequency of traveling is one of the key reasons why I am requesting the company to change my vehicle to one with better driving comfort, size and safety.

Ah, you have figured me out when it comes to the 2nd hand value of the car being less important as opposed to the other 2 criteria. To be honest, your posting basically narrows down the areas where my indecision lies. In the Camry, ride comfort is assured. In the Accord, I "believe" that as a driver, the performance would be better and the instrument layout, as you say is ergonomically better compared to the Camry. To sum it up, one car to drive, another to be driven. This is the reason why I wanted to arrange a CP1 test unit for my wife. If I could, in some way get her to experience the degree of comfort in the Accord and compromise a little against the Camry, I am then more inclined towards the Accord.

And so finally, not wanting to think more last night since I was so tired after returning from Ipoh, I left it to my 2 year son to pick the car ... I brought both catalogs out and put them in front of him. I was amused at how serious he looked when considering which car looked better since both appears very pleasing to him .... surprisingly, he took the Accord

Dear kenso

Ha! ha! There u go - even kids appreciate the good looks of the CP1! But I think we have to qualify by saying the Camry is not photogenic - it really look better in real life. I don't think we should judge them by their cover and photo - After all if u want to marry somebody, u want to see the person looks good in real life too and not just in photo, right?

But seriously, as head of family, whichever way u decide, I'm sure u would make the right decision in the interest of your family. I still maintain that u should get the Camry primarily since u travel a lot and u bring ur family with u and comfort is a big issue for ur family. However, u have to compromise on ur driving pleasure but I'm sure u will learn to live with that (as I did for 2 years in the 2.0G - the bit about overtaken by souped up kancil and kenaris sometimes gets on my nerve and the roaring sound when u overtake them - but now with the power of dream, this rarely happens ). And u have to budget a bit for your sparepart and maintenance after the warranty has lapsed since it is CBU Thailand.

Honda has done a lot to bring the comfort level of the CP1 to an acceptable level without compromising its performance. The CP1 is a lot better in terms of comfort as compared to my previous 7th gen (which I had for 2 years also) but still, not as comfortable as the 2.0G simply becoz performance/handling is inversely related to comfort.

By all means, test drive the CP1 with your wife, so at least ur wife can give her input. But I still think u should go for the Camry. Can u wait for the facelift?

[kenso]

By all means, test drive the CP1 with your wife, so at least ur wife can give her input. But I still think u should go for the Camry. Can u wait for the facelift?

Sigh, you're right of course when it comes to making a decision with my wife. If only that imbecile of an SA would consent to my wishes and arrange a CP1 test unit then I wouldn't be thinking too much. I have posted a few additional questions that you may have missed ... perhaps you can share your answers here again?

1) I noticed the soundproof of the Accord's roof is very bad ... just rapping my knuckles from the inside and out of the roof tells a very hollow sound. The Camry does not have this problem. Comments?

2)On other features of the car, you have mentioned the odometer of the Camry has the multi info display. Does this mean the CP1 doesn't? On the side of the Accord, it has a USB port that makes integration of thumbdrives and Ipods easy. Does this mean the Camry doesn't have this?

3)And one last thing .... the top speed of a CP1 is 190kph? What about the Camry?

[jedi]

Sigh, you're right of course when it comes to making a decision with my wife. If only that imbecile of an SA would consent to my wishes and arrange a CP1 test unit then I wouldn't be thinking too much. I have posted a few additional questions that you may have missed ... perhaps you can share your answers here again?

1) I noticed the soundproof of the Accord's roof is very bad ... just rapping my knuckles from the inside and out of the roof tells a very hollow sound. The Camry does not have this problem. Comments?

2)On other features of the car, you have mentioned the odometer of the Camry has the multi info display. Does this mean the CP1 doesn't? On the side of the Accord, it has a USB port that makes integration of thumbdrives and Ipods easy. Does this mean the Camry doesn't have this?

3)And one last thing .... the top speed of a CP1 is 190kph? What about the Camry?

1. Hmmm - not sure about the soundproof roof issue. But what I can say is that from my experience within the last 2-3 months on the CP1, overall, the sound proof is better than my ACV41. There is an additional layer of soundproofing material encompassing the inner part of the window sill in the CP1. Even my friend who owns the ACV31 and who has ridden on my ACV41 thinks that his ACV31 sound proof is far better than my ACV41. There are however issues of Mr Wee wee (which I don't have) and a very slight wind sound from the driver's seat (which I have but not yet bothered me) in my CP1 but as compared to my ACV41, the wind sound in the ACV41 is also recognizable at higher speed but it is distributed throughout. But so far I have no issue on the soundproofing of the roof. The proof as they say is in the pudding. If the roof sounds hollow but it can still serve its purpose of soundproofing, I think that should not be an issue. Maybe other CP1 can assist?

2. Now that u mentioned the roof, there is another issue that u may wish to know. From my experience of both cars, I noticed that for some reason or other, the heat (as opposed to sound) insulation of the ACV41 is not as good as the CP1. I say this becoz my kids have complained to me before that they can feel the heat emanating from the roof of the ACV41 when we were travelling up the NS Hghway in the hot sun. If u put ur hand near the roof from inside, u can feel the heat. I don't know if this is just my car or this is also in other ACV41. In this sense, I have to qualify the comfort (ie heat) issue as regards my ACV41 and there is no way to address this since u cannot put a tint in the roof. As compared to the CP1, there is a remarkable difference in the heat emanating from the CP1 roof. If u put ur hand to the inside of the roof, the heat as compared to my ACV41 is substantially less. My kids have yet to complain on the heat in the CP1 and we have been travelling regularly up the Highway.

3. CP1 does not have a detailed MID. It has the odometer and the temperature. For the Camry, it has odometer, temperature, time taken to travel, distance left in petrol, average speed. Camry does not have the USB port- so no thumbdrive and IPods. And to go to folder no 36 and song number 25 in my ACV41 takes quite a while since u have to manually press the seek button 36 times and then 25 times but I think the facelift should address this.

4. Max speed is something I don't really want to know becoz practically I know I will never go to that speed. Suffice for me that the acceleration is adequate and safe enough to overtake (especially souped up kancil and kenaris ) which is a breeze for the CP1 but slightly heavier for my ACV41. I also note that when I shift to D3 in the Cp1, the car can really go as compared to the ACV41 at D3. In any event the max speedometer in the CP1 is 260kmh I think and I don't remember the one in my ACV41.