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> [important] Peugeot Al4 Gearbox Advice
Andy214
post Jan 14 2008, 09:40 AM
Post #1


Tokyo Drifter
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Group: Members
Posts: 3,549
Joined: 23-May 06
From: Selangor, Malaysia.
Member No.: 58,761



Hi All,

Just would like to share some important information on the AL4 gearbox
especially to those who are NEW to the Peugeot AL4 gearbox. I`m sure some
have heard horror stories or have encounter some problems with it. Hope
these advice and tips below will help in taking care and extending the
life or the AL4 gearbox, and also hopefully *problem free*.

Please take some time to read this especially if you`re NEW to Peugeot,
more importantly if you`ve bought a second hand Peugeot (also applies to
those who have bought NEW but OLD models, which might have higher chances
of failure).

1. When SNOW and SPORT indicators are flashing, it`s the function of OIL
WEAR sensor; telling the oil`s life is up.
It`s mentioned that this sensor looks at the distance travelled and
temperature of the oil.
So, anyone have this indicator flashing should immediately get the
problem fixed before it`s too late.
Many forums mentioned it can be solved by restarting the car,
disconnecting and reconnecting the battery, etc. But it`s just resetting
the sensor, it does not fix the problem. So, get your ATF Oil changed
ASAP and check if there`s other problems.
I believe this is why some AL4 owners gearbox have major problem as I
read some just continue to drive ignoring/resetting the indicator.

Taken from the handbook/manual:
"Operating abnormality
Any operating abnormality is indicated
by an audible signal, accompanied
by the message `Automatic gear fault` on the multi-function display, by
a "-" and flashing of the Sport and Snow warning lights on the instrument
panel display.
In this situation the gearbox operates
in downgrade mode (locked in 3rd gear). You may feel a substantial knock
when changing from P to R and from N to R (this will not cause any damage
to the gearbox).
Do not exceed 60 mph (100 km/h), respecting local speed limits.
Contact a PEUGEOT dealer as soon as possible."


I also read in articles/reviews about the NEW Mitsubishi Lancer which has
gearbox temperature issue, which is "warned" by an indicator flashing to
PREVENT the overheat in the gearbox. It happens when the reviewer tries
to drag the gearbox/keep at constant high RPM, especially during Hill
Climb. So, I`d recommend the same for treating the AL4 gearbox to prevent
overheat in the gearbox (Not sure if there`s any special indicator to
warn about the heat or simply just the "Oil Wear Sensor" indicator).

2. Use the CORRECT ATF Oil. It`s stated clearly in the PDF, DO NOT USE
"RED" DEXRON III.
"Ensure that they replace your AL4 gearbox oil ONLY with the special
Peugeot AL4 transmission fluid, not with DEXTRON type which is to be used
in models with the 4HP14 gearboxes only."

3. It`s recommended to change the ATF Oil every 30,000KM according to the
PDF which gets the info from Citroen Xantia book. An aussie from the
forum mentioned he did ATF Oil change every 20,000KM, and the oil is
still very clean, but he did not want to take the risk to extend it.
So, to be safe and you don`t mind spending extra "care", maybe you can
change it during every 20,000KM service; But it does NOT guarantee you
that this will give you *problem free*, so it`s up to one`s decision.

From Peugeot Bermuda site Service advice:
http://bm.peugeot.zeni.fr/services/servicing/
"Due to slow driving speeds in Bermuda and constant stop/go we recommend
to follow Peugeot��s ��Arduous Conditions�� service schedule, including
the replacement of the Automatic gearbox oil every year.Always insist
they use original spare parts, and ensure that they replace your AL4
gearbox oil ONLY with the special Peugeot AL4 transmission fluid, not
with DEXTRON type which is to be used in models with the 4HP14 gearboxes
only."

Citroen info on AL4 gearbox (Very useful info):
http://www.citroencarclub.org.au/images/ch...0article%20aug%
2007%20chevrons.pdf

-----------------------------

From PeugeotLogic.com:
Important reminders
1. Only use genuine Peugeot transmission fluid.
2. The fluid leve�ee: Fre�7����Hi All,

Just would like to share some important information on the AL4 gearbox
especially to those who are NEW to the Peugeot AL4 gearbox. I`m sure some
have heard horror stories or have encounter some problems with it. Hope
these advice and tips below will help in taking care and extending the
life or the AL4 gearbox, and also hopefully *problem free*.

Please take some time to read this especially if you`re NEW to Peugeot,
more importantly if you`ve bought a second hand Peugeot (also applies to
those who have bought NEW but OLD models, which might have higher chances
of failure).

1. When SNOW and SPORT indicators are flashing, it`s the function of OIL
WEAR sensor; telling the oil`s life is up.
It`s mentioned that this sensor looks at the distance travelled and
temperature of the oil.
So, anyone have this indicator flashing should immediately get the
problem fixed before it`s too late.
Many forums mentioned it can be solved by restarting the car,
disconnecting and reconnecting the battery, etc. But it`s just resetting
the sensor, it does not fix the problem. So, get your ATF Oil changed
ASAP and check if there`s other problems.
I believe this is why some AL4 owners gearbox have major problem as I
read some just continue to drive ignoring/resetting the indicator.

Taken from the handbook/manual:
"Operating abnormality
Any operating abnormality is indicated
by an audible signal, accompanied
by the message `Automatic gear fault` on the multi-function display, by
a "-" and flashing of the Sport and Snow warning lights on the instrument
panel display.
In this situation the gearbox operates
in downgrade mode (locked in 3rd gear). You may feel a substantial knock
when changing from P to R and from N to R (this will not cause any damage
to the gearbox).
Do not exceed 60 mph (100 km/h), respecting local speed limits.
Contact a PEUGEOT dealer as soon as possible."


I also read in articles/reviews about the NEW Mitsubishi Lancer which has
gearbox temperature issue, which is "warned" by an indicator flashing to
PREVENT the overheat in the gearbox. It happens when the reviewer tries
to drag the gearbox/keep at constant high RPM, especially during Hill
Climb. So, I`d recommend the same for treating the AL4 gearbox to prevent
overheat in the gearbox (Not sure if there`s any special indicator to
warn about the heat or simply just the "Oil Wear Sensor" indicator).

2. Use the CORRECT ATF Oil. It`s stated clearly in the PDF, DO NOT USE
"RED" DEXRON III.
"Ensure that they replace your AL4 gearbox oil ONLY with the special
Peugeot AL4 transmission fluid, not with DEXTRON type which is to be used
in models with the 4HP14 gearboxes only."

3. It`s recommended to change the ATF Oil every 30,000KM according to the
PDF which gets the info from Citroen Xantia book. An aussie from the
forum mentioned he did ATF Oil change every 20,000KM, and the oil is
still very clean, but he did not want to take the risk to extend it.
So, to be safe and you don`t mind spending extra "care", maybe you can
change it during every 20,000KM service; But it does NOT guarantee you
that this will give you *problem free*, so it`s up to one`s decision.

From Peugeot Bermuda site Service advice:
http://bm.peugeot.zeni.fr/services/servicing/
"Due to slow driving speeds in Bermuda and constant stop/go we recommend
to follow Peugeot��s ��Arduous Conditions�� service schedule, including
the replacement of the Automatic gearbox oil every year.Always insist
they use original spare parts, and ensure that they replace your AL4
gearbox oil ONLY with the special Peugeot AL4 transmission fluid, not
with DEXTRON type which is to be used in models with the 4HP14 gearboxes
only."

Citroen info on AL4 gearbox (Very useful info):
http://www.citroencarclub.org.au/images/ch...0article%20aug%
2007%20chevrons.pdf

-----------------------------

From PeugeotLogic.com:
Important reminders
1. Only use genuine Peugeot transmission fluid.
2. The fluid leve�ee: Fre�7����Hi All,

Just would like to share some important information on the AL4 gearbox
especially to those who are NEW to the Peugeot AL4 gearbox. I`m sure some
have heard horror stories or have encounter some problems with it. Hope
these advice and tips below will help in taking care and extending the
life or the AL4 gearbox, and also hopefully *problem free*.

Please take some time to read this especially if you`re NEW to Peugeot,
more importantly if you`ve bought a second hand Peugeot (also applies to
those who have bought NEW but OLD models, which might have higher chances
of failure).

1. When SNOW and SPORT indicators are flashing, it`s the function of OIL
WEAR sensor; telling the oil`s life is up.
It`s mentioned that this sensor looks at the distance travelled and
temperature of the oil.
So, anyone have this indicator flashing should immediately get the
problem fixed before it`s too late.
Many forums mentioned it can be solved by restarting the car,
disconnecting and reconnecting the battery, etc. But it`s just resetting
the sensor, it does not fix the problem. So, get your ATF Oil changed
ASAP and check if there`s other problems.
I believe this is why some AL4 owners gearbox have major problem as I
read some just continue to drive ignoring/resetting the indicator.

Taken from the handbook/manual:
"Operating abnormality
Any operating abnormality is indicated
by an audible signal, accompanied
by the message `Automatic gear fault` on the multi-function display, by
a "-" and flashing of the Sport and Snow warning lights on the instrument
panel display.
In this situation the gearbox operates
in downgrade mode (locked in 3rd gear). You may feel a substantial knock
when changing from P to R and from N to R (this will not cause any damage
to the gearbox).
Do not exceed 60 mph (100 km/h), respecting local speed limits.
Contact a PEUGEOT dealer as soon as possible."


I also read in articles/reviews about the NEW Mitsubishi Lancer which has
gearbox temperature issue, which is "warned" by an indicator flashing to
PREVENT the overheat in the gearbox. It happens when the reviewer tries
to drag the gearbox/keep at constant high RPM, especially during Hill
Climb. So, I`d recommend the same for treating the AL4 gearbox to prevent
overheat in the gearbox (Not sure if there`s any special indicator to
warn about the heat or simply just the "Oil Wear Sensor" indicator).

2. Use the CORRECT ATF Oil. It`s stated clearly in the PDF, DO NOT USE
"RED" DEXRON III.
"Ensure that they replace your AL4 gearbox oil ONLY with the special
Peugeot AL4 transmission fluid, not with DEXTRON type which is to be used
in models with the 4HP14 gearboxes only."

3. It`s recommended to change the ATF Oil every 30,000KM according to the
PDF which gets the info from Citroen Xantia book. An aussie from the
forum mentioned he did ATF Oil change every 20,000KM, and the oil is
still very clean, but he did not want to take the risk to extend it.
So, to be safe and you don`t mind spending extra "care", maybe you can
change it during every 20,000KM service; But it does NOT guarantee you
that this will give you *problem free*, so it`s up to one`s decision.

From Peugeot Bermuda site Service advice:
http://bm.peugeot.zeni.fr/services/servicing/
"Due to slow driving speeds in Bermuda and constant stop/go we recommend
to follow Peugeot��s ��Arduous Conditions�� service schedule, including
the replacement of the Automatic gearbox oil every year.Always insist
they use original spare parts, and ensure that they replace your AL4
gearbox oil ONLY with the special Peugeot AL4 transmission fluid, not
with DEXTRON type which is to be used in models with the 4HP14 gearboxes
only."

Citroen info on AL4 gearbox (Very useful info):
http://www.citroencarclub.org.au/images/ch...0article%20aug%
2007%20chevrons.pdf

-----------------------------

From PeugeotLogic.com:
Important reminders
1. Only use genuine Peugeot transmission fluid.
2. The fluid leve�ee: Fre�7����Hi All,

Just would like to share some important information on the AL4 gearbox
especially to those who are NEW to the Peugeot AL4 gearbox. I`m sure some
have heard horror stories or have encounter some problems with it. Hope
these advice and tips below will help in taking care and extending the
life or the AL4 gearbox, and also hopefully *problem free*.

Please take some time to read this especially if you`re NEW to Peugeot,
more importantly if you`ve bought a second hand Peugeot (also applies to
those who have bought NEW but OLD models, which might have higher chances
of failure).

1. When SNOW and SPORT indicators are flashing, it`s the function of OIL
WEAR sensor; telling the oil`s life is up.
It`s mentioned that this sensor looks at the distance travelled and
temperature of the oil.
So, anyone have this indicator flashing should immediately get the
problem fixed before it`s too late.
Many forums mentioned it can be solved by restarting the car,
disconnecting and reconnecting the battery, etc. But it`s just resetting
the sensor, it does not fix the problem. So, get your ATF Oil changed
ASAP and check if there`s other problems.
I believe this is why some AL4 owners gearbox have major problem as I
read some just continue to drive ignoring/resetting the indicator.

Taken from the handbook/manual:
"Operating abnormality
Any operating abnormality is indicated
by an audible signal, accompanied
by the message `Automatic gear fault` on the multi-function display, by
a "-" and flashing of the Sport and Snow warning lights on the instrument
panel display.
In this situation the gearbox operates
in downgrade mode (locked in 3rd gear). You may feel a substantial knock
when changing from P to R and from N to R (this will not cause any damage
to the gearbox).
Do not exceed 60 mph (100 km/h), respecting local speed limits.
Contact a PEUGEOT d
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+Quote Post
Andy214
post Jan 14 2008, 09:41 AM
Post #2


Tokyo Drifter
***

Group: Members
Posts: 3,549
Joined: 23-May 06
From: Selangor, Malaysia.
Member No.: 58,761



Also, for those who have change to Borg Warner`s Solenoid MUST update
their ECU (if the previous Solenoid is not Borg Warner`s)

http://www.peugeotlogic.com/workshop/wshtml/transmis/al4/solenoid.htm

Solenoid Valves
1.Replace the pressure regulation valve and the converter lock-up valves.
2.Make sure the 2 seals behind the valve body are correctly fitted. If
necessary replace the seals.
3.Tension the valve body bolts to 8 NM.
4.After fitting the valve body adjust the selector index spring
5.Adjust the multi-function switch.
6.Before fitting the pan ensure the 2 magnets are present.
7.Fill the transmission with new fluid and adjust the level.
8.Update the transmission ECU software. The older software versions are
not compatible with the new Borg Warner valves.
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+Quote Post
Andy214
post Jan 14 2008, 09:55 AM
Post #3


Tokyo Drifter
***

Group: Members
Posts: 3,549
Joined: 23-May 06
From: Selangor, Malaysia.
Member No.: 58,761



Oil Cooler advice from w100:
Between the Citroen AL4 and Peugeot AL4, the oil cooler in Peugeot AL4 is
much thinner than those in Citroen C5. (You can check and compare for
yourself). Therefore, if you need to prolong your AL4 gearbox to avoid
future spending. Follow these steps.
1) Reposition your breather hose
2) Replace your AL4 oil cooler with Citroen C5 oil cooler, which is much
thicker. With thicker oil cooler, the heat transfer is better. This way,
your AL4 will work much better with cooler temp, smoother ride. **Buy the
the C5 oil cooler yourself, it is cheaper this way rather than asking the
workshop to provide. Part number for C5 oil cooler is 2275.55 and Peugeot
oil cooler is 2257.47. Retail around Rm1000+ for C5, but would suggest to
get from NAZA as they claim to give good discount.
You can get it from S`pore too.
Remember last time got it from C&C at aroung Rm 850.**
3) After changing the oil cooler, replace the ATF together. If you have
just replaced your ATF, then wait for the next replacement, so that you
can do it together by not wasting your money. 4) Replace your ATF every
35-40K to keep the heat and pollution out of the system. Use ORIGINAL
Peugeot ATF. Part Number 9736.22. Price should not be more than
Rm70/bottle. You need around 3 bottle for a 2 litre pack. With this
guidence, you should be able to minimize the failure.

Kian Hua S`pore phone number - 0262933850
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Andy214
post Jan 15 2008, 03:02 PM
Post #4


Tokyo Drifter
***

Group: Members
Posts: 3,549
Joined: 23-May 06
From: Selangor, Malaysia.
Member No.: 58,761



EDIT:
FROM Citroen Gearbox PDF:
Instead of doing flushing, a safer way to ensure the ATF is clean is as
below:
"If the oil is particularly dirty it may be best to repeat the whole
process in about 1000kms. When changing the fluid in an automatic box
there is always some left in the torque converter (up to 2 litres), so
that you wont get completely clean fluid with one change. Sometimes up
to three changes will be needed.
Remember to dispose of any used oil in an environmentally friendly
manner V your local council garbage depot is usually a good place as
they have oil recycling facilities."

Some members have warned of having problems after flushing, so do it at
your own risk:

By Autochild on other thread,
I hear of ZF gearboxs getting overhauled all the time.. and lately
hearing about many problems with the AL4... lotza horror stories.. they
have all all one thing in common.. they all started and ended with the
Original Fill ATF and periodic "drop and top" maintenance. I don`t have
anything against the LT71141 product IF it is treated like any other Semi-
Synth DexronIII ATF, that means Flush it every 50-60K, do the flush
properly and completely (whether you are switching ATF`s or staying with
the same brand) and make sure you get the level right. Basically the old
ATF can`t take the heat.. it gets old and fry`s your gearbox.. especially
those with the crazy "heat exchanger" excuse for a radiator.

Completely change it by way of full flush about once every 2 years / 50-
60K KM and get it done by someone who cares enough to make the
effort/spend the time to do it right..

----

By CARZ on other thread:
It is very important that the workshop does the level check for you at
the correct temperature, and using the correct procedure. At the wrong
temperature, it could result in an underfill or overfill, which is
damaging for the gearbox.
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Andy214
post Jan 15 2008, 06:17 PM
Post #5


Tokyo Drifter
***

Group: Members
Posts: 3,549
Joined: 23-May 06
From: Selangor, Malaysia.
Member No.: 58,761



More link for AL4:

AL4 ATF Level Affecting Gear Shift Behaviour by seanswn:
http://www.autoworld.com.my/forum/allposts.asp?
summary=1&Forum=ap319603972&access=1&status=1&subject=ATF+%
2D+Affect+Shifting

Here's a post by Burnout from that thread, where the Mass Air Flow (MAF)
sensor causes problem to the gearbox.
"OK, my transmission "problem" started about a couple of weeks ago
when my A4 gearshifts started to behave abnormally.

1. In 'D' mode, it shifted late from 2nd to 3rd gear holding the rpms
to over 4000 before it decides to upshift with a slight jerk. I call
it a sticky 2nd gear. This doesn't happen in tiptronic mode. I can
manually shift from 2nd to 3rd at any rpm.

2. A slight vibration could be felt on the steering column when
the above happened.

3. Sometimes in tiptronic mode, when I manually shift from 2nd to 3rd,
it would immediatelt drop back to 2nd automatically with a rise in
rpm.

4. Once in a while, the transmission goes into limp mode, whether
it was in 'D' or in tiptronic mode. In this mode, only 3rd gear
is operational until I pull over, switch off and restart.

5. Occasionally there will be a slight shudder whenever I coast to
a stop at traffic lights.

6. Lately, my idling became unstable and oscillates between 600 to
1000 rpm. The car normally idles rock steady at 800 rpm. I had my
mechanic clean the throttle body but it didn't solve this problem.

Sent to M-Scope, said the problem is electrical, most probably a short
in the wiring harness or a malfunctioning solenoid valve. Sent to
EH Autolink, said I need a transmission rebuild at RM8,500.

It was point 6. that made me suspect maybe it is not a transmission
fault, but an air intake problem that is confusing the ECU and sending
the wrong commands to the TCU, hence the abnormal gearshift behaviour.

This morning, I took the car to my regular mechanic and asked him to
disconnect the MAF (Mass Air Flow) Sensor, which I suspect is
defective, and Voila! problem solved. Gearshifts are back to normal,
no sticky gear, no jerks, no shudders, no limp mode.

Temporarily, I am running rich as the ECU is compensating for the lack
of air-flow information from the MAF, relying solely on default
Air/Fuel ratios based on the speed sensor and the TPS (Throttle
Position Sensor). My car is DBW (drive-by wire). The erroneous
values from the defective MAF are throwing the A/F ratio computation
out of whack.

The authorised S/C quoted me RM1,300 for a new MAF. I can get one
from Singapore for around RM600. So now you know how much your
S/C can mark up on spare parts.

Hopefully my experience can give Peugeot forummers (I own a 406 too)
an alternative insight into troubleshooting the often dreaded
transmission problem. It can be as simple as a loose connection,
or in my case, a defective MAF sensor. "
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konno81
post Jan 15 2008, 08:58 PM
Post #6


Probation
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Group: Members
Posts: 31
Joined: 2-January 08
Member No.: 70,560



hi andy....
i'm new here sorry if i ask u stupid question....i really not good in machine...

i got this 'snow' and 'sport' problem for my tiptronic gear box...esp in the morning when i started
my engine...i really do not know whether to change the gearbox oil or resetting everything...
if i have to change the oil, should i use the one that u suggest? can it use for tiptronic gear box or
it just for automatic only...

plan to send my car next week..a bit busy now...huhu

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jepakazoid
post Jan 15 2008, 09:29 PM
Post #7


Taxi Driver
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Group: Members
Posts: 365
Joined: 13-January 07
Member No.: 63,480




Man, changing every 30 KM? How much is it going to cost. I thought normal
ATF change is every 60 000 KM. Damm Im going to have to eat sand again.
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Andy214
post Jan 15 2008, 10:54 PM
Post #8


Tokyo Drifter
***

Group: Members
Posts: 3,549
Joined: 23-May 06
From: Selangor, Malaysia.
Member No.: 58,761



konno81,

I'm no expert nor am I user of the AL4, I'm driving the manual. I just
gather those information around this forums and other sites to share with
other AL4 owners.

For your case, I can't tell what's the problem exactly, BUT you should send
your car for checking as soon as possible.
And according to the handbook/manual, do NOT drive over 60mph (100km/h)
before you fix the problem.
I would advice you to NOT rev the engine high at the moment so as to do any
harm to the gearbox.

According to the Citroen PDF, it states that the 'snow' and 'sport'
indicator flashing is the function of the Oil Wear sensor, which checks the
condition of your gearbox oil.

From PeugeotLogic.com, it mentioned that it could be several problems,
commonly the solenoid valve.

I'm not sure changing the oil will solve the problem, but you should let
the mechanic check.
Please insist them to check properly, I read that many owners, the mechanic
just do a reset and assume the problem is fix; BUT it most probably will
come back again. If it does, then that time could mean real problem.
So before it DOES actual damage to your gearbox, please insist the mechanic
to CHECK thoroughly, if not ask them if the next time problem occurs and
something is damage, can they WARRANTY you FULLY.

By the way, how many KM has your car clocked?

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Andy214
post Jan 15 2008, 11:04 PM
Post #9


Tokyo Drifter
***

Group: Members
Posts: 3,549
Joined: 23-May 06
From: Selangor, Malaysia.
Member No.: 58,761



jepakazoid,

Every 30,000KM is what's recommended in the Citroen PDF. From other Pug
owners, they've recommended 30,000-40,000KM (or every year). It's UP to you
to decide. The cost would depend on the ATF brand, I'm not sure how much
does it cost for Peugeot or ESSO one, you can check with the SC, but you
can get cheaper elsewhere if your car has already finish its warranty.

As mentioned, there're an australian Citroen owner who change his ATF Oil
every 20,000KM, also my pug owners around here.

There're also people who has no problems so far following the normal
service schedule, but it'll be a BIG risk to take because the gearbox is
REALLY expensive.

Also, as shown in Autochild post, he mentioned the ATF Oil should be flush
every year or 50-60K KM.

Tough, something to take not, changing it regularly and flushing it doesn't
mean your gearbox will be *problem free*. I'm just gathering advice from
others, as a step to prevent and minimise the possible of failure.

So, anyone who still have problems, please share their experience, what has
been done, how the car is driven, traffic conditions, did you stay near the
sea or close to salt water, etc?
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konno81
post Jan 16 2008, 12:03 AM
Post #10


Probation
*

Group: Members
Posts: 31
Joined: 2-January 08
Member No.: 70,560



andy...
my car starts clock at 30,000....ermm, after read all this thing i think i better change the oil first,
then see how is it....what do u think?

Jepakazoid...
already asked S&C about the oil price, which andy has recommended, it around rm160.00 for 2L

andy...
i'm working in kuching actually...i shipped my car here last year...
not many 206 users here lor...huhu Dead
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