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New CITY & VIOS Target Countries & Market


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#1
ViceCity

Posted 07 June 2003 - 04:51 PM

ViceCity

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Something that I`m not quite sure but base on the reading I`ve made from
the net, both car was design for almost different target market or
countries at the first place. Of course I believe the car company hope
that cars should be accepted thru out the world but the facts is, is not
as simple and easy as that.
For the new Honda city, as I red, it was first introduce in Japan as Honda
Fit Aria following its successor Fit or Jazz in other countries. These 2
cars are still a hit in Japan breaking Toyota all time record the
corollas. The car exterior and interior looks similar with the one sold in
Malaysia and it does it have the same quality, well according to some
news, it does. That is a very good news for Honda City owner to be as we
are going to have what Japanese built quality. I was told also that the
engine assemble in Japan but not sure how true is that. I was once in
Japan before and when they meant quality they are very serious is detail.
I was talking to a Quality Manager in Japan before and he says that, if
you cant do a good job on small thing such as a sticker, we don’t believe
you could do any better on large thing like an engine or car. Lets hope
that stays in the economy we are in today and no double standard by this
Japanese company. Also, it seems that the 8 valve thingy didnt worry the
Japanese but accepting the car with flying colors. With Japanese
technology and knowledge a few years a head of us, I beleive I`ve made a
right decision to own one base on these Japanese populations and brain.

As for Vios, as what I`ve red again. Was firstly deployed in China, It was
jointly develop with a China company in Tianjin China. These actually
explain the ???? That appear at our head for some of Vios weirdly design
inside the cabin of the car. The 2 small cabin for h/p which actually fits
perfectly for flip type h/p which is very popular in China. The small
cabin size which also perfectly nice for China market, is interesting that
I didn’t see Vios is introduce in Japan or India since they already have
Vitz/platz anyway. But then, why new name but base on older platform?
Well, I guess is to fight against VW which is very popular there. Anyway,
Toyota focus on China market is a good idea. Many company do that. Imagine
the amount of people in Shanghai City only, is equivalent with the number
of people in the whole Malaysia including Sabah and Sarawak.
Interestingly, I don’t See any news says that the new Honda City is
introduce in China, anybody know? On one of Honda site, they only offer up
to Civic.

Anyway, anybody could drop a note or 2 on what do you think about this?
What will the effect of moving from market the other such as City from
Japan to Thai, Philippine and Malaysia as well as Vios from China to these
countries as well? Will the quality Design for Japan customer same as
those in other country? How about China develop cars, will it be any
different with Japanese one such as Vios vs Yaris/Platz/Vitz and how the
effect when they bring them to Malaysia which will be a country that car
company eyeing for as 2005 comes….

Chips, lets hear whats is going on in your brain as well…he he he
Big Smile



#2
ghetto23

Posted 07 June 2003 - 07:13 PM

ghetto23

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Vice,
Sorry to spoil your party, but the city (fit aria) is not even in the top
20 list of best-selling cars in japan... the one which unseated corolla
as No 1 was the jazz (fit).. if my readings prove correct, there are two
variants of the fit there.. a 1.3 i-DSI and a 1.5 i-DSI VTEC.. the 1.5
pushes out 110hp and the majority of fits sold in japan is the 1.5
variant..plus, both comes with the CVT & 7-speed Steermatic...i heard the
1.5 model costs more than $120k if u buy from grey importers here...

but again..someone else here may prove me wrong..:)
no offense


#3
Ivan

Posted 07 June 2003 - 07:56 PM

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Vice, just for your info, Honda is going to introduce the city (fit aria)
in China somewhere in August. The car will use the name fit instead of
city in China.

However, since the Accord's waiting list is up to 6 months now, they might
hold back the launching of the fit to increase the production of the new
Accord there.



#4
Chips

Posted 07 June 2003 - 08:41 PM

Chips

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Yes, the Honda which displaced the Corolla as No 1 was the Jazz/Fit alone
which came out earlier than the Fit Aria, which is the same as our City
and in fact, the Fit Aria sold in Japan is imported from the same Thai
plant. However, in Japan, the sedan market is also on the decline so it
is not surprising that the Fit Aria and Corolla have less sales.

On the original question in this thread, I am not sure what exactly the
question is but let me offer some explanations on the way the car
companies are not operating.

Today, the name of the game is platform-sharing. A platform is basically
the chassis, suspension and powertrain. You can call it the base of the
vehicle and it is a costly part of the development. The body is like a
dress - can be altered to any style. So once you get a platform done -
and that costs a lot - you can use it for various models and you should
in order to spread out the R&D costs.

So in the case of the Vios/Yaris/Platz/Echo and maybe a few other small
Toyota models, the platform is essentially the same. It is based on the
New Basic Concept (NBC) which was formulated in 1997 and if you study the
models I mentioned, you will see that there are similarities. So what has
happened is that Toyota has developed this one platform and is now using
it for many different models. However, to consumers, because
the `clothes` look different, they feel it is a different model and that
feeling is dependent on how well the company positions each model.

It is possible to have one model for many markets, as was the case of the
Corolla for a long time. But consumers are becoming more demanding too
and each market has some specific requirements and conditions. In order
to meet these specific requirements, some modifications must be made
locally so that their appeal is greater.

The Vios in China can be considered a different development from the Vios
we get because it was designed for China conditions and consumers. Yes,
you may say how can China`s consumers get things like GPS displays and
high-tech stuff when they are not as advanced as us. The answer is
probably that the China market volume is huge and will get bigger, so
Toyota can afford to put more things in and still sell the car at a
reasonable price.

In ASEAN, Toyota and other companies have tried to treat the region as
one market and therefore calculate based on the combined volumes. That is
why AFTA is quite a crucial thing for consumers. Without it, each market
will be treated separately and with small volumes, the flexibility will
be limited. Malaysia has a market size of 400K, which is small, but add
up with Thailand and Indonesia, you get a fairly big market.

So that is why they develop ASEAN models and the City and Vios are good
examples where they have tried to rationalise the specs so that the same
model can be used in different countries. The less variations there are,
the better. Right now, some companies are frustrated that where engines
are concerned, Singapore has to be treated differently because their
emission reg is Euro 3 when other ASEAN countries are still at Euro 2 or
Euro 1.

I asked the Honda Malaysia CEO why he could not just `share` the sporty
models that are sold in Singapore when ordering from Japan. He told me
that because of the Euro 3 engine, the model would cost more and so it is
not good for him to use that same model. But to order separately for
Malaysia, the volume will also be too small to get a good price from the
factory. So that is why models like the Integra can be sold in Singapore
but not in Malaysia. The potential number of customers is crucial and for
some models, it may not be enough.

Making cars locally or in the region is another important move. It may
seem like something to please govts but it is also better for most
companies because in this area particularly, assembling locally can be
advantageous in pricing due to tax structures. And if they can source
parts locally, they are also less a they féYes, the Honda which displaced the Corolla as No 1 was the Jazz/Fit alone
which came out earlier than the Fit Aria, which is the same as our City
and in fact, the Fit Aria sold in Japan is imported from the same Thai
plant. However, in Japan, the sedan market is also on the decline so it
is not surprising that the Fit Aria and Corolla have less sales.

On the original question in this thread, I am not sure what exactly the
question is but let me offer some explanations on the way the car
companies are not operating.

Today, the name of the game is platform-sharing. A platform is basically
the chassis, suspension and powertrain. You can call it the base of the
vehicle and it is a costly part of the development. The body is like a
dress - can be altered to any style. So once you get a platform done -
and that costs a lot - you can use it for various models and you should
in order to spread out the R&D costs.

So in the case of the Vios/Yaris/Platz/Echo and maybe a few other small
Toyota models, the platform is essentially the same. It is based on the
New Basic Concept (NBC) which was formulated in 1997 and if you study the
models I mentioned, you will see that there are similarities. So what has
happened is that Toyota has developed this one platform and is now using
it for many different models. However, to consumers, because
the `clothes` look different, they feel it is a different model and that
feeling is dependent o

#5
mechsainz

Posted 07 June 2003 - 08:47 PM

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ViceCity,

This has nothing to do with HONDA, just trying to point out something that
is obvious to the East Malaysians but may be oblivious to most of the West
Malaysians. Forgive me before I begin.....

Your statement "....Imagine
the amount of people in Shanghai City only, is equivalent with the number
of people in the whole Malaysia including Sabah and Sarawak....."

I don't see any reasons why the statement "....including Sabah and
Sarawak....." should follow "...Malaysia...." aren't these two states part
of the Malaysia in the first place, aren't we a family ?

I'm well aware that this point may be totally oblivious and unimportant to
my many friends here. But back in our homestates, this is one gesture that
can work against "INTEGRASI NASIONAL", especially among the older
Sarawakians and Sabahans.

Have a nice day weekend Smile

#6
ViceCity

Posted 07 June 2003 - 09:50 PM

ViceCity

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thanks all for sharing this valuable info. I knew I could get more from
all. As for the Malaysia including Sabah and Sarawak, yah I notice that,
actually most people would ask when I share about the Shanghai
populations, they would ask, Including Sabah & Sarawak? again I will
answer just like mechsainz said, Sabah and Sarawak is part of Malaysia
also what?, so just to shorten the questions, I include the answer
already. FYI, I'm from east Malaysia. Long time ago, I had a pan pal who
ask me whether people in Borneo still stay on top of the tree. I answer
him YES. In order to go up there, we need to take a lift which need some
special code of identifications that controled by our special computer
main frame. Ha ha ha ha., We both laugh as we knew it was just a joke. I
felt what he meant, but we change the subject and he understand that
Borneo is well developed now.
Anyway, I knew Chips could give a great informations to share I get what
you mean by platform sharing now.
Another point I want to share which I dont know whether it is related or
not is, about the VIOS horn which you mention not loud enough, well when I
was in some city in China, they dont allowed to horn. You dont hear any
one horn in the city and is actually illegal? Wierd but it is true. But I
like it, less hectic and more quite.
Cool that City or Jazz will be introduced in China. I beleive they will
get lots of attention.

Perhaps Honda made a right moved to get CITY and Jazz to our country which
polutions need some attentions.Not many will talk about this when they
talk about car. Most popular are power, handling, comfort, fuel
consumptions etc but when polutions is not there at all.

Happy driving everyone.....
Smile




#7
phoonly

Posted 08 June 2003 - 12:45 PM

phoonly

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i am interested in both the Jazz and City...but the Jazz is
quite expensive...so have to settle for the City...which have
the same "feel" as the Jazz......

One thing i don't relly understand...Singapore is a much
smaller country than M'sia...but Singaporean still have
so many choices of cars there compared to M'sia ???

Even is CBU model...don't u think is more expensive to export to
Singapore compared to M'sia...i am sure for example the sales
volume of the Integra to M'sia & singapore will be similar
by looking at the population....& living standard...
(M'sian can afford to purchase fairly expensive cars too....
looking at the no. of new BMWs, Mercs, harrier, Streams
on the road etc....)...pls. clarify...thanks.


#8
Chips

Posted 08 June 2003 - 02:30 PM

Chips

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Singapore and Malaysia are rather unusual markets for carmakers to do
business in. Singapore has COE and prices are very high at retail, but it
is a govt policy that is applied to every one so the industry doesn't
complain. It is also permissible under WTO because it is an
equal 'penalty' for all and does not give any party an advantage.

However, the small size means that the imported cars can cost more
because the numbers imported are smaller. So the price that the company
can get is not so good as say, USA, where they take maybe 100 times more
of each model.

Singapore, not having CKD, means that new models come in very fast, the
moment they are available from the factory. And because of the
competitive nature, new models come in all the time. It is also easier
for the companies to change specs because they send the order to the
factory and three months later, they get a new spec.

In the CKD business in Malaysia, orders are committed 9 months in advance
and the CKD specs can't be altered much. So change is slower in Malaysia.

The Malaysian market has a national car program which has resulted in
what is called an 'unlevel playing field'. Proton/Perodua/Inokom get
preferential tariffs which allow their products to be priced cheaper. It
is a govt policy and is technically not permitted under WTO. Eventually
it will have to go but as with such governmental things, the process
takes a while. But at least the first step is AFTA.

You also have to consider the relative economic levels between Malaysia
and Singapore which have an influence on the models sold. Economically,
Singapore is stronger and a quick indicator would be the exchange rate vs
the US $. It takes less S$ to one US$ than Malaysian RM.