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Problem: Intermittent Loss Of Power And Juddering


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#21
beezbub

Posted 06 July 2010 - 08:14 AM

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QUOTE (woody100 @ Jul 5 2010, 09:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi guys, I appreciate your concern here.

To beezbub, yes, you're right. I was in 'D' mode when making the u-turn under a flyover. Right after the u-turn, I gradually floor the pedal from partial to full depress, like what kenso says. At the point there is where I experienced the power "lost" for about a second. I believe I should be in gear 2nd or 3rd.

I reported this to BB Glenmarie during my 10k service. Of course, I can't simulate the problem. I remember the SA did mentioned something to do with gearbox flashing which he believes it may solve the problem. Honestly, I've no knowledge as the suggestion makes any sense. The SA advised me to do it on next service.

For others, I'm using RON97 since the day 1. Petrol claim is reimburseable from company. tongue.gif

hmmm.. i like to have the gearbox flashed too so that the auto gear change from 3rd to 4th happens only after 76km/h.
if only they can do that..

#22
kenso

Posted 26 July 2010 - 10:09 AM

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My car has been lying in BB Glenmarie for a couple of days now as they try to diagnose and fix the misfiring issue. Apparently mine is the first case they have accepted; couple of days later, anothe 308 came in with the same prognosis (anyone's here?). They have isolated the problem to carbon build-up in the cylinders and need to remove the entire engine to clean it. Here's how it looks:



The four holes in front are stained with carbon. Another few days before it can be ready. Sigh.

#23
joelucas91

Posted 26 July 2010 - 10:24 AM

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QUOTE (kenso @ Jul 26 2010, 10:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My car has been lying in BB Glenmarie for a couple of days now as they try to diagnose and fix the misfiring issue. Apparently mine is the first case they have accepted; couple of days later, anothe 308 came in with the same prognosis (anyone's here?). They have isolated the problem to carbon build-up in the cylinders and need to remove the entire engine to clean it. Here's how it looks:



The four holes in front are stained with carbon. Another few days before it can be ready. Sigh.


That was fast tongue.gif

#24
benfoo

Posted 26 July 2010 - 10:27 AM

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mate....just a coupla questions and observations

- r u still referring to the engine sudden loss of power and juddering issue?? kudos if so and congrats u haf managed to get the SC in recognising this since the problem is intermittent and cannot be replicated

- carbon built-up in such a new engine...how is that likely...the only reason i can think of is due to the grade of petrol (correct me if i'm wrong)...did the SC elaborate further....but again u haf been on a straight ron97 diet isn't it??

- wud the other SC's be informed (via some internal nasim/SC feedback network etc)..this wud be gr8 as i'm gonna be sending my car for its 10k km service to KS 2morrow...i will be asking them about it then....

keep us posted....cheers mate.....


QUOTE (kenso @ Jul 26 2010, 10:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My car has been lying in BB Glenmarie for a couple of days now as they try to diagnose and fix the misfiring issue. Apparently mine is the first case they have accepted; couple of days later, anothe 308 came in with the same prognosis (anyone's here?). They have isolated the problem to carbon build-up in the cylinders and need to remove the entire engine to clean it. Here's how it looks:



The four holes in front are stained with carbon. Another few days before it can be ready. Sigh.



#25
kenso

Posted 26 July 2010 - 10:37 AM

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QUOTE (benfoo @ Jul 26 2010, 10:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
mate....just a coupla questions and observations

- r u still referring to the engine sudden loss of power and juddering issue?? kudos if so and congrats u haf managed to get the SC in recognising this since the problem is intermittent and cannot be replicated

- carbon built-up in such a new engine...how is that likely...the only reason i can think of is due to the grade of petrol (correct me if i'm wrong)...did the SC elaborate further....but again u haf been on a straight ron97 diet isn't it??

- wud the other SC's be informed (via some internal nasim/SC feedback network etc)..this wud be gr8 as i'm gonna be sending my car for its 10k km service to KS 2morrow...i will be asking them about it then....

keep us posted....cheers mate.....


To ur questions bro, yes, I am referring to the sudden loss of power and juddering issue. The thing is, this engine fault will NOT appear in the car's simple self-diagnosis tool (the one where u press between the dials) so if an owner does not know what to expect, he/she would not know his/her car has this issue. It was because I felt something funny sometimes when I drive it that I brought it to KS for them to check the engine with PPS did they discover the engine fault. Although the problem is intermittent, our car's ECU would keep a record of all the faults that it has encountered but only through PPS can the owner see what went wrong.

Even so, the mechs in BB does not know what caused it. Speculations were given to me that the grade of oil I used may be the culprit but I countered saying that for people like me who has been feeding my car ONLY Esso RON97 all the time, shouldn't more cars come in with similar problems? They could not answer this question for me. So as of now, we know the problem but we do not know what is the cause, hence cannot take proactive measures to prevent this from happening again.

Would the other SCs be informed? I think so coz each SC seems to be able to recall my car's data regardless of which branch I bring it to. U have to be specific in telling them to enter the engine diagnosis program in PPS if u want them to check (some mechs are idiots and tell u they've done this and that but actually nothing at all). Best if you could be present to see the diagnosis real time as they hook up onto ur car.

#26
joelucas91

Posted 26 July 2010 - 10:44 AM

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QUOTE (kenso @ Jul 26 2010, 10:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
To ur questions bro, yes, I am referring to the sudden loss of power and juddering issue. The thing is, this engine fault will NOT appear in the car's simple self-diagnosis tool (the one where u press between the dials) so if an owner does not know what to expect, he/she would not know his/her car has this issue. It was because I felt something funny sometimes when I drive it that I brought it to KS for them to check the engine with PPS did they discover the engine fault. Although the problem is intermittent, our car's ECU would keep a record of all the faults that it has encountered but only through PPS can the owner see what went wrong.

Even so, the mechs in BB does not know what caused it. Speculations were given to me that the grade of oil I used may be the culprit but I countered saying that for people like me who has been feeding my car ONLY Esso RON97 all the time, shouldn't more cars come in with similar problems? They could not answer this question for me. So as of now, we know the problem but we do not know what is the cause, hence cannot take proactive measures to prevent this from happening again.

Would the other SCs be informed? I think so coz each SC seems to be able to recall my car's data regardless of which branch I bring it to. U have to be specific in telling them to enter the engine diagnosis program in PPS if u want them to check (some mechs are idiots and tell u they've done this and that but actually nothing at all). Best if you could be present to see the diagnosis real time as they hook up onto ur car.


I don't think the mechanics would know the cause, they'll have to contact France. We both saw their blank faces just now tongue.gif

But at least they found the problem and got a fix for it smile.gif

#27
benfoo

Posted 26 July 2010 - 10:46 AM

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smile_thumbup.gif thx for quick reply

guess i'll need to mentally prepare myself for 2morrow at KS then smile_tongue.gif

they did a PPS check during my 2.5k inspection as i insisted on it (i also highlighted to them on the juddering issues but kept it civil as i knew there was no way to replicate it for them)....it also shows the engine fault and i was able to see on the occasions it happened as it was all logged.....i was, however, not able to link it back to when i experienced the engine judder episodes (memory not tat gud la smile_blackeye.gif ) so i also accepted the answer which was given to me then aka grade of petrol used as i remembered clearly that i was on a testing phase between ron95 vs ron97 at that time

i will c wat KS tells me when i bring this issue up again 2morrow.....



QUOTE (kenso @ Jul 26 2010, 10:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
To ur questions bro, yes, I am referring to the sudden loss of power and juddering issue. The thing is, this engine fault will NOT appear in the car's simple self-diagnosis tool (the one where u press between the dials) so if an owner does not know what to expect, he/she would not know his/her car has this issue. It was because I felt something funny sometimes when I drive it that I brought it to KS for them to check the engine with PPS did they discover the engine fault. Although the problem is intermittent, our car's ECU would keep a record of all the faults that it has encountered but only through PPS can the owner see what went wrong.

Even so, the mechs in BB does not know what caused it. Speculations were given to me that the grade of oil I used may be the culprit but I countered saying that for people like me who has been feeding my car ONLY Esso RON97 all the time, shouldn't more cars come in with similar problems? They could not answer this question for me. So as of now, we know the problem but we do not know what is the cause, hence cannot take proactive measures to prevent this from happening again.

Would the other SCs be informed? I think so coz each SC seems to be able to recall my car's data regardless of which branch I bring it to. U have to be specific in telling them to enter the engine diagnosis program in PPS if u want them to check (some mechs are idiots and tell u they've done this and that but actually nothing at all). Best if you could be present to see the diagnosis real time as they hook up onto ur car.



#28
joelucas91

Posted 26 July 2010 - 10:49 AM

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QUOTE (benfoo @ Jul 26 2010, 10:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
smile_thumbup.gif thx for quick reply

guess i'll need to mentally prepare myself for 2morrow at KS then smile_tongue.gif

they did a PPS check during my 2.5k inspection as i insisted on it (i also highlighted to them on the juddering issues but kept it civil as i knew there was no way to replicate it for them)....it also shows the engine fault and i was able to see on the occasions it happened as it was all logged.....i was, however, not able to link it back to when i experienced the engine judder episodes (memory not tat gud la smile_blackeye.gif ) so i also accepted the answer which was given to me then aka grade of petrol used as i remembered clearly that i was on a testing phase between ron95 vs ron97 at that time

i will c wat KS tells me when i bring this issue up again 2morrow.....


Kenso went to BB, not KS.... not sure whether KS can handle this problem for you

#29
benfoo

Posted 26 July 2010 - 10:55 AM

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BB or KS doesn't really matter mate...what i intend to find out is that if information like this is shared across the SC network or not...i also need to know if individual SC is willing to call one another for updates (specially so when i'm highlighting to them that such an issue is being acknowledged and addressed at another SC)...this is important to me as i rate SC's service on such matters....instead of taking the easy way out and saying "it's normal la" or "its the ron grade u use la" or watever....

cheers...

QUOTE (joelucas91 @ Jul 26 2010, 10:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Kenso went to BB, not KS.... not sure whether KS can handle this problem for you



#30
kaminski

Posted 26 July 2010 - 11:55 AM

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QUOTE (kenso @ Jul 26 2010, 10:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My car has been lying in BB Glenmarie for a couple of days now as they try to diagnose and fix the misfiring issue. Apparently mine is the first case they have accepted; couple of days later, anothe 308 came in with the same prognosis (anyone's here?). They have isolated the problem to carbon build-up in the cylinders and need to remove the entire engine to clean it. Here's how it looks:
The four holes in front are stained with carbon. Another few days before it can be ready. Sigh.


I sympathise with you Kenso, no one wants to see their engine dismantled so early in the ownership period.
This carbon build up is actually a problem that has plagued this engine type in the Mini. Just check out the mini forums in the UK and the US. I believe that BMW/Peugeot made some changes to the pcv arrangement in response,however I am also sure that this was done prior to 2009 build engines. In most cases number three cylinder was the most affected by carbon deposits

Do you know what code they found using PPS? Have they stripped down the cylinder head? I ask this because its important to see which valves are gunged up the most to assist them in finding out the root cause.
Did they conduct an emissions test?

Carbon is a naturally occurring byproduct in a combustion engine, it starts as a thin coat of black soot. Many things, like contaminants found in lower grade petrol or petrol that has been contaminated with paraffin bases substitutes, a vehicle that is running rich, oil leaks, faulty EGR systems, faulty PCV systems and short trip driving can lead to excessive carbon buildup.
This buildup can lead to decreased fuel mileage, excessive emissions, hesitation, lack of power, stalling and poor acceleration because the carbon buildup on the vehicles sensors do not allow the computer to properly control the air/fuel mixture, which can lead to even further carbon buildup. And so it progresses on and on until the engine is choked.
Anyway, they now have to figure out why your engine has excessive carbon build up. I hope that when they have your engine stripped down that they check/clean all the sensors.
Fingers crossed for a quick root cause diagnosis


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