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#71
jj0000

Posted 05 October 2010 - 11:47 PM

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QUOTE (dabdab @ Oct 5 2010, 11:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
im not good at rims.
these days putting 16 inch is expensive, tire is nearly the price of 17inch.
but 16 inch with 205/45 is the best fit and the corner is really sharp and 205 grips good for this car, im afraid putting 50 series might be a bit of issue because its a bit taller, frankly im not sure about clearance and if any scraping or rubbing might happened.
45 series rides a bit harsh. but sharp control

mine is 50series with 15inchers. it compensate some ride comfort from my stiffer spring. cornering not bad though.
to be on the safe side i use t from other brand car standard 15 inch rims at the same hole size (pcd 100) and shod wit 195/50. 50 series is sharp at corner but you will experience a sharper turn with 45

but if u go for after market light weight, light weight rims although made in taiwan or korea or local the wheel will be embossed with the word 'light weight' and the rim itself 1000rm plus.

if you have wider tire of course its heavier, to compensate,,use lighter wheel. and if you are talking FC then i would say +- only marginal effect due to the wheel.

but if you are using taller tire it might give a slight batter FC in a long distant highyway . but FC might suffer a bit in stop and go town drive since the gearing ratio is taller now due to diameter of the tire increased . and initial push for the car is heavier and also might effect acceleration. - theoretically.



Icic... really thanks for your explanation, sifu dab. U mention that, wider tire... it's mean different of series for tires? like 50 series wider than 45 series? or it's just taller? any different? sorry cause i'm noob on car smile_blackeye.gif


#72
dabdab

Posted 06 October 2010 - 12:02 AM

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QUOTE (jj0000 @ Oct 5 2010, 11:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Icic... really thanks for your explanation, sifu dab. U mention that, wider tire... it's mean different of series for tires? like 50 series wider than 45 series? or it's just taller? any different? sorry cause i'm noob on car smile_blackeye.gif


i give u this link, you can play around with tyre size comparison. dont forget to use the check box for comparison with standard tire. theres a result for speedometer reading due to change some are quite significant some are at allowable.
http://www.tiresizecalculator.info/



#73
jj0000

Posted 06 October 2010 - 01:00 AM

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QUOTE (dabdab @ Oct 6 2010, 12:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i give u this link, you can play around with tyre size comparison. dont forget to use the check box for comparison with standard tire. theres a result for speedometer reading due to change some are quite significant some are at allowable.
http://www.tiresizecalculator.info/


Thanks for share this useful link. It's just show the result of driving speed right? 195/50/15 is more suitable for saga blm since u all using this...

Thanks alot smile_tongue.gif

#74
dabdab

Posted 06 October 2010 - 03:02 AM

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QUOTE (jj0000 @ Oct 5 2010, 11:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Icic... really thanks for your explanation, sifu dab. U mention that, wider tire... it's mean different of series for tires? like 50 series wider than 45 series? or it's just taller? any different? sorry cause i'm noob on car smile_blackeye.gif


it hard to explain actually what it means by series,
for example 50 series for kancil is different for 50 series of waja.
the 50 is aspect ratio in relation to the width of the tire and side wall height

both are 50 series with different side wall height and different tire width.

how the series come about is that the height of side wall divided by tire width all in mm and the result x100= series.


#75
dabdab

Posted 06 October 2010 - 03:14 AM

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QUOTE (jj0000 @ Oct 6 2010, 01:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks for share this useful link. It's just show the result of driving speed right? 195/50/15 is more suitable for saga blm since u all using this...

Thanks alot smile_tongue.gif


yes we have to use this as a guideline.
the most correct tire is the nearest to the accurate to speedo reading. thats mean it comply to the manufacture specication.
but if you want to change its all right, the further you are off the original spec the more it implicates other aspect.
like wheel arch size, heavy acceleration, so on, but there is some allowable amount of alteration that is still ok. but not much. within that margin you can play around with it.





#76
vr2turbo

Posted 06 October 2010 - 10:01 AM

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QUOTE (jj0000 @ Oct 5 2010, 10:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks u all so much, vr2 and dab smile_sleepy.gif

Today i go survey tyre shop and ask advice for rim. I asking why two of these same inch rim, but different prices so much. He said one is import rim, one is local rim. Different is material to produce these rim. Import rim got mix with alloy material, weight less than local rim. So if take import rim, car will improve FC cause car weight has reduce and more steady when driving on highway.. Is all of that true? sifu?

Some more, he suggest, if take 16" rim, take 195/50 with tyres. That's will improve FC as well, is that good?

Hope can learn more from u all sifu, thanks smile_blush.gif

The tyre shop just trying to make a sale. Imported rims are not light weight. Light weight rims are made with different materials and will be light. Just weight them and you will know.
Since your Saga is a small car, 15" should be max. Using 16" means using lower aspect ratio tyres and that will make you ride worst. Not mentioning less tyre choices, and more expensive too.

#77
vr2turbo

Posted 06 October 2010 - 10:09 AM

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QUOTE (jj0000 @ Oct 5 2010, 11:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Icic... really thanks for your explanation, sifu dab. U mention that, wider tire... it's mean different of series for tires? like 50 series wider than 45 series? or it's just taller? any different? sorry cause i'm noob on car smile_blackeye.gif

The series or aspect ratio is the sidewall height oppose to tyre width. Take your 185/60R14 as example. The tyre width is 185mm wide and tyre sidewall is 60% of 185 = 111mm
So if you use 195/50/R15, then tyre width is 195mm and tyre sidewall is 50% of 195 = 97.5mm

There is a difference in height of 13.5mm, that is where you rims height compensate back.
Remember that you have upgraded from 14" to 15".
1" is roughly 25.4mm divide by 2 (section height is only half the wheel)= 12.7, therefore overall height is lower by 0.8mm only (13.5 - 12.7) which is almost perfect fit.....

#78
jj0000

Posted 06 October 2010 - 07:57 PM

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QUOTE (vr2turbo @ Oct 6 2010, 10:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The series or aspect ratio is the sidewall height oppose to tyre width. Take your 185/60R14 as example. The tyre width is 185mm wide and tyre sidewall is 60% of 185 = 111mm
So if you use 195/50/R15, then tyre width is 195mm and tyre sidewall is 50% of 195 = 97.5mm

There is a difference in height of 13.5mm, that is where you rims height compensate back.
Remember that you have upgraded from 14" to 15".
1" is roughly 25.4mm divide by 2 (section height is only half the wheel)= 12.7, therefore overall height is lower by 0.8mm only (13.5 - 12.7) which is almost perfect fit.....


amazing.. formula and calculation really awesome.. i see until blur blur already @@" but so far still can understand with your clearly explanation, thanks alot vr2 sifu.

few days ago i tried my car on highway with 100-120kmh. I felt my car abit unstable. seem like abit float... it's cause my tyre alignment? or i should change bigger rim like 15 inch to become more steady? lower springs got improve this or not?

#79
dabdab

Posted 06 October 2010 - 10:48 PM

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QUOTE (jj0000 @ Oct 6 2010, 07:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
amazing.. formula and calculation really awesome.. i see until blur blur already @@" but so far still can understand with your clearly explanation, thanks alot vr2 sifu.

few days ago i tried my car on highway with 100-120kmh. I felt my car abit unstable. seem like abit float... it's cause my tyre alignment? or i should change bigger rim like 15 inch to become more steady? lower springs got improve this or not?


low profile tire, bit lowered and a bit stiffer suspension makes the car stable at high speed. no floaty feel. even overtaking at corner can be done in a crisp manner. instead of feeling tip toeing due to the body lean during cornering.
anyway any new car rolled out from the factory i would say its mandatory for wheel alignment. futhermore if you trevel up to 120 it is advisable to have a more accurate on wheel balancing to avoid steering vibraton.

if 15 inch after market wheel,of course you will be using a lower profile tire and it will reduce roll effect, and after market do have some amount of positive offset in increasing the track width, so this is another way to add stability.

my experience with standard wheel and suspension.-
-too much lean at the round-about.
-cant attack the corner fast. need to brake before entering corner.
-the sansation of beeing a too tall car because of the body roll
-need to turn the steering more at a more aggresive corner due to front understeer caused by tall skinny tire. and body roll -will reduce front traction due the tire has become less parallel at the surface contact.
-during high speed i have to really concentrate on the steering. wth sport suspension the car is more direct.


#80
vr2turbo

Posted 07 October 2010 - 10:12 AM

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QUOTE (jj0000 @ Oct 6 2010, 07:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
amazing.. formula and calculation really awesome.. i see until blur blur already @@" but so far still can understand with your clearly explanation, thanks alot vr2 sifu.

few days ago i tried my car on highway with 100-120kmh. I felt my car abit unstable. seem like abit float... it's cause my tyre alignment? or i should change bigger rim like 15 inch to become more steady? lower springs got improve this or not?

OE standard are a cross between comfort and performance, that is why you have float feeling. If the suspension is hard, then a more elderly unker who bought this car will complain not comfortable.
There are a few issues on this. Some already mentioned by bro. dabdab.
Suspension in one. Tyres is another.
If you are not the all out driver, keep the standard suspension. This is because any lowering or using sports suspension your comfort level is gone. To improve on the road holding change to after market 15", and use relatively better tyres. Using 15" means lower profile tyres. Lower sidewall means less flex and improvement in float feeling. After market rims with wider offset, setting your wheels further out then OE rims, but within your wheel arch. This will give you better center of gravity.
Try this out first and if you still want further improvement then change the suspension...... smile_tongue.gif